Diario de mskestrela, 03 jul. 16

Wooooooooohoooooooooo!!!!!!!!! You go, girrrrrrrl! You are going to rock that swim suit on the beach! ;) 

Pay close attention to see if the protein shake causes cravings. They do for me, but you may do fine. 

Congratulations on your new 25+ year low! 

Thanks, Ladies! I have the use of my neighbors' pool all weekend, and I'm happy to say I can comfortably wear a swimsuit I couldn't even squeeze into last year. :) Jenny, I'm not worried about cravings from the shakes. I'm one of those annoying people that doesn't get cravings. The closest I come is a mild, "Gee, I'd sure go for some ________ right now. Oh, well." LOL I've never really had a sweet tooth, and by the time I finish one of the shakes, I'm 'sweeted out' for the day. 

That's so great! If you get a chance, read the Obesity Code by Dr. Jason Fung. He's the big reason that I decided to go for the HFLC IF approach and he's no fan of the protein shakes. Basically, he's all about staying as close to the way foods come to us from nature. Stay away from the processed stuff if you can. Sadly, because I used to use the protein shakes, but they are processed so I've ditched them.  

@mskestrela... Yea, I remember now! You're that wintch who never craved chocolate! :'D  

@PhillySue... LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Dr. Fung! 

@PhillySue, I've read it! As a Naturopath, I mostly do eat whole and organic. I'm just facing a little issue right now with loss of appetite/capacity. I think the 2.5 weeks I did a 23:1 fast did something, because now I seem to be avoiding eating. I'm having to really push myself to eat enough calories and especially protein. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by slowing my metabolism, so whatever I have to do to get the daily calories up, I will do, until things straighten out.  

The fasting raised your ketone level, meaning you're "consuming" more of your own body fat as fuel. Having more energy needs met by your own stores naturally results in less hunger. Having less protein in the diet (in some's opinion) is not necessarily a bad thing. Have you ever read from Dr. Rosedale. I really tried to refrain from commenting on the subject, but I feel like most of us are here to research, learn what we really for ourselves, and what works for us. Just throwing his name out there. :) 

*learn what we really *believe* for ourselves 

True, Jenny, but even Rosedale has a minimum requirement for protein. My target should be 50-60g/day according to most calculators, but even eating 2 eggs, and a meat-heavy LC pizza yesterday, I only hit 35g. I think my concern comes from lack of clarity about calorie restricted higher carb diets vs. low calories on keto. 600-800 kcal is considered starvation, but I can't find any solid info about that on keto. Help? 

Great job! 

I see your point, that's not good. So far the longest I've been able to fast is 22 hrs. and going that long is mostly just because of timing/scheduling. Usually I'm on a 18/6 schedule but that's not working today so I went for the 22. I'm surprised I could actually do it, but it hasn't been hard. I'm Ok with the protein and fat, I'm having trouble with the fiber so I have to work on that.  

I've had the same concerns, Mskestrela. Krista Varady, who has done most of the research on every other day dieting, uses 500-600 kcals for the diet day and eat normally on the off day. Her research shows that it doesn't matter what the source of the calories is for the "dieter." (She pitted high fat and low fat diets against each other and got similar results, after she accounted for more "cheating" by the low fat dieters.) Also, her research shows that people employing this method burn fat and preserve muscle, doing much better than people who used a regular lower calorie diet every single day. Now most people agree that even the short-term "fasting" puts you in fat burning (keto) state, and point to that as the reason that muscle is preserved. I think Varady's research answers your question about calorie restriction higher carb not really preserving muscle. Fung doesn't seem to talk about calories, but looking at his sample meals I think the calories would tend to be low for many. He doesn't talk about amounts, though - maybe he leaves it up to the person's appetite? 

Awesome! Congrats :)  

Actually, Dr. Rosedale recommends as little as 30g a day. http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2010/05/07/ron-rosedale-protein-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/ Starvation mode is possible in a "normal" calorie restricted diet, because the insulin police is blocking fat stores from being utilized thus leading to no other option than to catabolism muscle tissue. One has complete access to body fat stores when ketogenic. The body can be completely nourished from stored fat. Dr. Fung said it best when he said something like, " The body is not stupid. It would have no reason to store fat for hardship if it was designed on burning muscle." We need some fat when we eat protein to buffer sugar spikes (yes even protein causes some spike), and to help with digestion. We may need more dietary fat for quicker energy if we are very active or before exercise, because the it is a little more accessible. Other than that... burn, belly, burn...lol. ;) http://ketogeniclifestyle.com/starvation-mode-and-muscle-wasting-myth-on-a-low-carbohydrate-diet/ Let me know if the links cut off, and I'll PM them to you. :) 

Congrats, nice work!! 

Yeah, the links cut off, Jen. :/ That was my thought process, though on the keto/calorie question, what Dr. Fung said. If I'm keto adapted, then what food I eat is for vitamins and minerals, not for energy.  

I know what you mean, msk, about fearing the depressed metabolism, which always happened in the past, at least for me. I am trusting in this process, though. It's hard to believe how easy it is NOT to eat. It blows my mind, frankly. 

wow! great work!